Responses to Brainwashing
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SW 9-16-03

James_Hernon__8-26-05

 


 

SW  9-16-03

Subj: brainwashing 
Date: 9/16/03 3:50:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:  
To: JCnot4me@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)


Hi,
 
Just was reading your web page about brainwashing. I think many religionists (as you call them) are in fact brainwashed. I agree this type of brainwashing is indeed child abuse. 
 
But I don't think that is the only thing that is going on. You say
 
"In a five minute discussion between an Atheist and a religionist, what chance do logic and reasoning have going up against years and years of  intense daily brainwashing?"
 
I don't think that logic and reasoning have much to do with anybody's religious beliefs, or lack of them, including yours and mine. I think there are powerful psychological reasons why people believe what they do, even the ones who were not brainwashed in the way you describe on your page.
 
There is the love factor. Moonies "love bomb" people into starting up with them; if you go to one of their meetings everyone smiles at you and looks soulfully into your eyes and is very warm and you have never been so loved in your whole life and you might as well give up all resistance right now. (THEN they start the more classic brainwashing.)
 
There is the power factor. There is a Creator of the Universe. He is angry and going to roast people. And I'm on His side. So that makes ME powerful, better, judgmental, holier, whatever. That makes me Powerful, whether I admit it to myself or not.
 
There is the control thing. People knock themselves out trying to control other people's behavior. And judging, condemning, "converting", frightening, are all classic control moves. "You must submit to external authority of the book/church/ministers! Under no conditions are you to trust anything that is inside yourself! Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"
 
And on and on. People believe what it makes them feel good to believe. (Or powerful. Or in control.) Even people who do not believe in religion.
 
I think that most people's religious beliefs are a reaction for or against their parents and their parents' beliefs.
 
I also think that calling one's self an atheist is using the religious frame of reference to define part of one's identity. If one was truly outside of the religious frame of reference, then it just wouldn't matter. I'm not a Hindu, but no part of my self identity is bound up with being an a-Hindu-ist. I just don't care about it.
 

Mark Smith here}     Well, maybe if Christians would learn to mind their own business and stop trying to take over the entire world, the task I'm doing wouldn't be needed. But when you've got Christians making the newspaper almost daily with blowing up buildings, shooting people for Jesus, drowning their babies because god told them to, and trying to shove their religion down the throats of others on public land, yes, I do think I'll stand up and say something. Sorry you don't seem to care about these things that yes, indeed "matter".

 

 

I also think that psychology is replacing religion, or has already replaced it in an important sense, as the prime explanation of the internal world of human life. Many people have had more intense growth experiences in some kind of therapy or with some personal-growth book/event than in any church.
 
But that doesn't explain the persistence and growth of these fundamentalist churches, does it? Not just in Christianity but in Islam as well. I don't know the answer to that. And I agree with you, they are dangerous.
 
Anyway, I like your page. Thanks for putting it up.
 

Mark Smith here}     You're welcome, and we still agree on more than we disagree on. Bottom line is that people shouldn't be brainwashing poor little kids. I would get just as upset if Atheists were plotting to do this as religionists.

 

SW

 

 

 

 

James Hernon  8-26-05

Subject: Brainwashing is not just a Christian phenomena
Date: 8/26/2005 5:37:24 A.M. Pacific Standard Time
From:
Reply To:
To: JCnot4me@aol.com

 

Dear JCnot4me@aol.com,

I read your website articles and realise the tactics your informing people of are in fact TRUE, many times I felt the emotional tactics used but alas this is not only a christian sect mentality, and when I looked closely at other (exclusivist religions) I found the us and them mentality, the superior and inferior mentality.

 

Mark Smith here}     You are correct, this is not limited to Christianity, which is why I subtitled my essay "CHRISTIAN Brainwashing", to distinguish it from Communist Brainwashing, Buddhist Brainwashing, and any other kind that might be out there.



Its not just a Christian phenomena but is something that is part of all groupings and can be seen not only in religions but also in any group/s… please look at politics, sectarian attitudes, race, creed, social class, monetary status and even further down to colour of hair and eyes see fascism.

 

Mark Smith here}     I strongly disagree. By saying that ALL groups have this, that ANY groups have this, you have just defined "it" out of existence. And having been in or visited plenty of groups over the years, I know from personal experience that not ALL groups practice this. I noticed you presented no evidence to back up your claim.



Anyway I think you should be more broadminded about your site concerning brainwashing, its possible that all people become the victim of some sort of perceptory deceit at some time.



If you have some kind of (only Christians brainwash) then you leave yourself open to the criticism that your anti-christian, the message is true, but people are always trying to persuade others, this is sometimes due to what Christ himself said (If you be not gatherers with me, then you scatter), the same kind of anti-group hatred can lead to persecution as the Jews will tell you straitly.

 

Mark Smith here}     I don't want to shock you, and I hope you are sitting down for this. Ready? This IS an ANTI-Christian web site. I don't take being anti-Christian  an insult. Given this, why would an anti-Christian web site want to spend 10,000 web pages writing about non anti-Christian topics???



What happens when the oppressed become the oppressors, they are blind to their actions as they only remember the oppression they experienced.



Brain washing happens to individuals whose power is based upon the human need to be loved and for acceptance, as you may know acceptance is something that most human beings need and want from others in society and respect, acceptance and approval is what most children long for from their peers. When someone is admired by the youth the leader wields the power and this can lead to self deception by the youth, the attitude is “our leader can do no wrong”, later people realise the humanity and flaws of such leaders.



A belief in GOD is not something I force upon you or anyone else. But I know your pain, from the crusades that you mention, whereby first you are made to feel worthless, then useless, then grateful. I feel that you have animosity about those days from your youth, not all the Christians you will meet have the same kind of mentality towards others who live in different faiths or beliefs. I myself had to fight against this us and them mentality that I felt was being imposed by fundamentalists, but if you open your eyes a little bit you will realise that Jesus spoke out against those same ideas that the Pharisees and the Saducees had about their own exclusivism.

 

Mark Smith here}     But Jesus is also the one that called non-Jews one of the biggest racist insults of his day- he called them dogs. And if you've been following the current Bush war in Iraq, you know the feelings of the middle east towards dogs. So please, don't get too mushy on Jesus. He wasn't the saint you might be imagining him to be.

 



Anyway I hope your having a good time, take it from me… this is not just a Christian phenomena.



Thanks for the website.

James Hernon






 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

 
 
Contact Information for Mark Smith

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Email:     JCnot4me  @  aol.com        Web Page     JCnot4me.com

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