| Table of Contents | |
| Randall S Larson 6-13-03 | Randall doesn't respond to even a single argument of mine- S.O.P. for Christians. |
| Lorne Parsons 6-12-03 | Lorne thinks Biblegod acts unreasonably, i.e. without reasons. |
| Vicki Parsons 6-14-03 | Lorne's wife Vicki adds her family comments. |
| Steve_Burns_3-29-07 | RE: Biblegod Admits a Mistake} Steve Ignores the Facts |
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Mark--just a suggestion for eliciting a larger response than a yawn...try
disproving the existence of God in the creation of the UNIVERSE, not
angels...then you'll get a bigger response. It seems you are majoring on
the minor, and minoring on the major...just a suggestion.
Mark here} Amazing. Here is a man just starting to waste his life in the service of a mythical being, getting educated at BIOLA, and after I have totally and forever disproved this mythical being could even exist, his big response is a yawn. Obviously, he hasn't studied enough the religion he is serving to realize the significance of what's at stake here. I DO know for a fact that he hasn't even studied his religion enough to be able to name the books of the New Testament, for when I quizzed him on it when we met in person, he failed. I do this with all Christians I meet as a quick "litmus test" to see if they are ignorant or educated when it comes to their own religion. He failed, so don't expect any great arguments out of Randall as you read further.
And as far as the angels go...a few passages regarding them, and their duties on earth
are found in psalms, and Hebrews 1:7. I also would suggest you read I
Corinthian 1:18, I thought of you when I read it. I just finished
training, so the little kiddies come tomorrow!! I am seriously excited!
The joy of the Lord has been my strength, because the counselor training
was action packed. I have been studying Proverbs in my daily devotions.
Its funny...devotions used to be a drag, and now I'm finding myself
longing to be with my savior. I love him so much, and realize his power
in His creation (Romans 1:20-22). In proverbs, I'm learning the power of
wisdom, last night, I read in proverbs 8 where it speaks of wisdom being
present before
the mountains were created! It also spoke of wisdom delighting in
mankind, and in being an instrument of creation with God. After
establishing it's origins, and importance in the creation of the universe,
Wisdom calls out to mankind to heed its commands, search after it daily
"sitting at it's doorway." I am awed that the God of the
universe would
be so gracious to instruct me how to live in the book of Proverbs. I love
Him so much for that, and cannot wait to "seek wisdom with all my
heart"
so "my treasuries will be full." Mark, thank you for listening,
this is a
real help to me to type this out, it engrains truth in my head.
Love,
Randy
Mark here} I told you not to expect any great arguments out of Randall, and you saw none, as I predicted. Not even a small attempt at responding to a single argument of mine. Instead, he wasted his time blathering on in praise of his imaginary invisible fiend, errr, friend. He's obviously still so in love with his gods that he is blind to their faults (such as not existing!). Maybe in five or ten years, when the "relationship" has cooled off and he's seen for himself that Christianity Doesn't Work As Advertised, he'll be more receptive to reason and logic.
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Mark here} Lorne says this as if being a pragmatic human is a BAD thing. And what is the alternative- being a scatterbrained Martian or a brain-dead Venusian??? I, for one, am not ashamed of being a HUMAN- too bad if you Christians are. Self-loathing, though, is part and parcel of your religion, so what else would we expect???
which is simply an unfounded denial with the accompanying arguments having no real solid foundation in that they make an assumption... each and every one.. to "who and what" God is...
Mark here} What else BUT assumptions can be made of a mythical fictional being??? It's not as if you could parade him in public, or put him under a microscope, is it??? Hell, even you Christians ramble on and on with guesses and wishful thinking when it comes to "What is God???" questions.
much like the ultimate practical person trying to understand the wandering logic of an artist.....
Mark here} So Lorne, are you holding up the most scatterbrained of humans- the "artists", as our ideal to strive for??? There IS no "logic" associated with artists. Why didn't you hold up an engineer, or a scientist, like Ayn Rand would have?
(note that I didnt say
"left brain - right
brain" since new research has proven that the balance between the
creative and the practical is far more complicated.
Why did God create angels??? Why did I carve a horse on an emu egg last week?
Not a need simply.. because I wanted
to...
Mark here} So you are admitting then that your Biblegod does things with no rhyme or reason behind it- just lashes out at the Universe like a bull in a china shop, the ultimate capricious being bereft of logic or reason- THAT is the god you worship??? That's sad!!!!
is that a fault... no... to express ones self is not necessarily based in a "lack" which is the author's claim over and over... Why do we stop to smell things...like flowers in a field... a need? a lack? a fault?
Mark here} No, you stop to smell flowers because of a desire that before you smelled the flower was unmet. Therefore, you were in a less than perfect situation, and you thought the sweet scent of a colorful flower would increase your happiness. And, by the way, this prove you to NOT be a perfect being in a perfect situation- just like it would with Biblegod. You just admitted my entire argument is correct!!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
something
missing? nope... it's just there to do... and if we can make such things
do-able in our finite situation.... how could we ever expect to reason away
why God creates?
Mark here} You Christians always mock us Atheists whenever we admit we can't answer ALL the questions in the Universe. "What happened during the Big Bang, Mr. Smartypants Atheist, eh???" and such. Well, isn't it funny that you Christians oft times claim ignorance too, even though YOU DO claim to have ALL the answers (and even make up answers as it suits you). Hypocrisy, thy name is Christian.
The author's thinking also touches on the idea that emotions are a
frailty.... or need based...
Mark here} Yes, emotions ARE a need. As warm blooded animals, we do have emotional needs. Haven't you read ANY of the research in animal and human psychology done in the last 100 years? What rock have YOU been hiding under? One such experiment deprived infants of hugs and human contact- and guess what? It hurt the kids. Yes, emotions are a NEED that needs to be satisfied, to be psychologically healthy.
Speaking of needs, does your Biblegod NEED worship??? If YES, then he is less than perfect. If NO, then why are you wasting his time with all your boot-licking and groveling???
that is also a limited view of one of the most
beautiful forces that we can be touched by. Perhaps some of these questions
may be answered by considering the professional musical stage production
called 'Toymaker's Dream' produced by Impact
Productions? Check it out sometime."
Lorne Parsons.
Mark here} So, what what argument of mine exactly did Lorne respond to? NONE!!! Like a typical scatterbrained Christian, he IGNORED all of my arguments and rambled on in the fascination of hearing his own voice. When, oh when, will I ever be graced with a Christian that actually RESPONDS TO MY ARGUMENTS, point by point, and doesn't instead just blather on and on with religious bullshit!!!! Do ALL of the Christians in the world today have nothing but MUSH between their ears???
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Mark here} My point exactly- you agree with me! IF your marriage to Lorne was indeed perfect, that is, with no room at all for any improvement, you would not change a thing- unless you wanted to mess it up and make it LESS than perfect, for once you've reached perfection, the only way to go is DOWN. Ditto for Biblegod- IF he really had been perfect, then ANY action on his part would have resulted in something LESS THAN perfect. Therefore, Biblegod, by simple logic, can not exist.
If part of God's in the VERY beginning, was the desire to create (which I believe He imparted to us in allowing us to pro-create), why does that mean He's not perfect?
Mark here} Because IF he had been perfect, he would have HAD no desires. Period. The very second Biblegod would have desired ANYthing, that's the second he started to be imperfect, for desire shows a lack of, and a perfect being can not by definition have a lack of anything.
Mark here} No, I must only be a man who owns a dictionary. We ARE still using the English language, aren't we (even though you are Canadians!!!)??? The Bible is a book, translated into English, and I read and write English- what's the problem? I know EXACTLY what the word "perfect" means- it's no mystery.
Mark here} So anytime a non-Christian turns up the intellectual heat on you, you're going to retreat into that old "It's a mystery!!!" defense, eh??? Well then, IF it's such a "mystery" as to be beyond comprehension, get your butts back to Canada and stop wasting the time of Hispanics in Honduras, trying to explain things to them you yourself have already admitted are beyond explanation. GO HOME- stop wasting theirs and yours time. IF your intelligence is so "hopelessly warped", stop trying to use it and go back home and live a quiet life without disturbing anyone about all this Jesus crap.
Subject: My Position
Date: 8/10/2005 6:13:45 A.M. Pacific Standard Time
From:
Reply To:
To: JCnot4me
Mark,
You are correct when you say God is not perfect
based on the definition that mankind has
decided on. However, is it not possible that God's definition of
"perfect" differentiates from ours. Here is something you have probably heard
before.
Mark Smith here} Well, we ARE humans. Guilty as charged. And until we become Martians or something else, we have to use the definitions that we humans have decided on. And IF there are gods "up there", were they to communicate with us humans on Earth, they too had damn well use OUR definitions. That is just basic common sense. If you go to Japan and want to communicate the best you can, you'd better well learn Japanese along with Japanese definitions.
How do you know the grass is green? You know the grass is green because someone told you the grass is green. Now do you understandddd? Some one told us what perfect means, and it makes sense to mankind. But, as you know what makes sense to one person may not make sense to another. Hence, we may not understand the full meaning of perfect in God's relm of reality. We only know what makes sense to us. I challenge you to critically think more than you have, of whether or not that there is truly no God. Do you realize that you are taking one verse from the bible and maybe a few others that I am not aware of, and attempting to disprove the existence of God?
Mark Smith here} Yeah, I kind of had that idea. And you know what? It worked! In just a few short paragraphs, I totally and completely destroyed the Christian theory of Biblegod. Amazing, isn't it, how quickly and easily it fell.
Here you are discussing how to logically think something through, yet, in actuality you have failed to do just that. I encourage you to read 101 contradictions in the bible "cleared up!" Incidentally, remember, human intelligence is finite. Do not let one verse stray you from what you know deep within your roots to be the truth.
Mark Smith here} Soooo.... because our intelligence is finite, are we then to NOT use it??? That seems to be what you are getting at. And as to your advice not to use the Bible to help determine if the Bible is true or false, to instead use some perversion of Star War's "Just go with your feelings, Luke" mentality, that's just plain DUMB. You want me to go with my gut feelings? OK... your Bible is a pile of CRAP and IF it were written by a god, it was a retarded god. How's that for using my gut feelings???
Do you honestly believe that God does not exist? Take a look around you. Everything you see was created by the hands of an articulate master of all things. We, humans did not come into existence by merely chance. Everything is to "perfect." Take human anatomy for instance. If it was missing just one part it would not function properly. Anyway, there is much that can be discussed concerning God being perfect, but I just wanted to scratch the surface with you. I will be waiting for your response.
I forgot something that is relevant to my argument. I claimed that God may
have a different definition than us for the term perfect. For example, the term
rule in English (paraphrasing) means to have dominion over, exercise kingship,
dictate, etc. In Hebrew the term rule means just that as well, but with a touch
more. It means to take care of. In other words, it is to love.
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Mark Smith here} If you failed to catch it the "the first time" then maybe you need to re-read it and study it till you can at least see my point. In Algebra, do you give up after "reading" thru an equation once? No, you study it until you can comprehend it. And this "algebra" is fairly simple. How it does not "come across" to YOU is beyond me. Biblegod admits he did something that was NOT good, as he himself says "It is NOT GOOD for man to be alone". Well Steve, there was no one else around way back then creating anything BUT Biblegod, so WHO was the screwup that CREATED this "NOT GOOD" situation in the first place??? How can you read Biblegod's own words that he did something that wasn't good, and then deny his very words by saying he didn't error???
What is quite evident here is that The Lord is communicating to us the fact that "it is not good for man to be alone." God's creative work was obviously not complete until He created the woman, this is very clear to the reader. What we witness here is just His divine order of creation.
Mark Smith here} Whether his creative work was done or not, YOUR Biblegod created a situation that WAS NOT GOOD (using his own words). Why do you ignore this FACT and instead run off with a speculation about whatever "creative work" yet needed to be done- what are you, a mind-reader of Biblegod? Do you have his "To-Do" list for creation??? And as for the "divine order of creation" this has nothing to DO with order- this has to do with YOUR Biblegod screwed up, ADMITTED he screwed up, then went on to FIX his screw up- all of which you totally and completely IGNORED in your "response". Once again, I feel in talking to a Fundy that somehow you escaped the institution to come out to talk to me.